Zikula Community

• espaan
  
  

  • Rank: Developer
  • Registered: Aug 23, 2003
  • Last visit: May 31, 2010
  • Posts: 1428

  Posted: Aug 18, 2010 - 09:01 AM

  http://css-tricks.com/cakephp-project-events-manger/
  
  
  
  Zikula is way more easy, but you don't read about it that much.
  
  
  
  Edited by espaan on Aug 18, 2010 - 11:17 PM.
  
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  campertoday.nl, Module development, Dutch Zikula Community

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• craigh
  
  

  • Rank: Developer
  • Registered: Jun 16, 2003
  • Last visit: May 29, 2010
  • Posts: 1966

  Posted: Aug 18, 2010 - 09:48 AM

  not sure what your point is exactly, but it looks like they are reinventing Zikula + PostCalendar + Locations
  
  and probably several other Calendar apps that run on Zikula (TimeIt, etc).
  
  so, unless I misunderstand your point... been there, done that.

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• espaan
  
  

  • Rank: Developer
  • Registered: Aug 23, 2003
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  • Posts: 1428

  Posted: Aug 18, 2010 - 10:16 AM

  True, but there is no article on CSS-tricks about that That was my point.
  My point was that we should have more articles like that as well. Zikula seems way more easy to use than what I read in the CakePHP article, but we don't write about it (yet).
  
  --
  campertoday.nl, Module development, Dutch Zikula Community

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• craigh
  
  

  • Rank: Developer
  • Registered: Jun 16, 2003
  • Last visit: May 29, 2010
  • Posts: 1966

  Posted: Aug 18, 2010 - 10:28 AM

  aha. SEE what I get for not paying attention?

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• bronto
  
  

  • Rank: Helper
  • Registered: Dec 31, 1969
  • Last visit: May 07, 2010
  • Posts: 507

  Posted: Aug 18, 2010 - 10:43 AM

  This kind of gets us back to a comment I made last month about what we should call Zikula.
  
  CakePHP is what's usually referred to as a framework. It's for writing a new application from scratch. It's an appropriate tool to use if you have an application to write that you don't think will fit well within an existing system of some sort. You can structure your app just about any way you want to, and Cake manages to write a lot of your code for you. But ultimately everything in your Cake-base app will be something you coded/generated yourself. I don't think there's any provision for using someone else's Cake "modules" inside your own application.
  
  We've referred to Zikula as a framework at times in the past, but it's not that in the same sense that Cake is. Zikula doesn't write any code for you (ModuleStudio aside) but it does provide a ton of services already pre-written so you don't have to write them yourself. And what you DO write yourself, you have to conform to the Zikula structure/API. But the payoff for this conformity is that you can use other modules inside your "application" just by installing them.
  
  Two completely different approaches to developing an application. Both valid. But it's why I suggested not calling Zikula (simply) a framework, but a "CMS Framework" so that it would differentiate itself from things like Cake.

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• Paustian
  
  

  • Rank: Softmore
  • Registered: May 30, 2005
  • Last visit: May 31, 2010
  • Posts: 340

  Posted: Aug 18, 2010 - 05:03 PM

  Quote

  But the payoff for this conformity is that you can use other modules inside your "application" just by installing them.

  
  
  The payoff is also having tested code that a lot of people are using and it works. I love the DBUtil stuff; it saves tons of time. Also, sticking to the conformity makes you use "best practices", since the zikula core team is using them. This makes it very easy to extend/maintain modules. I just recently made an export utility in my book module (it exports an entire chapter) XHTML compliant. Because I had stuck to the zikula way of doing things, it was easy to modify the code.

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• drak
  
  

  • Rank: Software Foundation
  • Registered: Jul 21, 2001
  • Last visit: May 31, 2010
  • Posts: 624

  Posted: Aug 19, 2010 - 01:18 AM

  bronto

  We've referred to Zikula as a framework at times in the past, but it's not that in the same sense that Cake is. Zikula doesn't write any code for you (ModuleStudio aside) but it does provide a ton of services already pre-written so you don't have to write them yourself.

  
  
  A framework is not something that writes code for you. This is simply a feature called scaffolding. Anyone can write code generators/scaffolding without the actual framework. We have actively rejected scaffolding because has no maintainability beyond the initial code generation.
  
  A framework (and Zikula is a framework in every sense of the word) is simply a codebase that provides a platform to write programs in. Zikula is different to CakePHP and Zend and so on because we go further by providing services that would have to be written manually like administration interfaces, user authentication modules. In CakePHP/Zend etc they provide the libraries to do this. Zikula therefor saves a lot of time. In a sense, we have both framework (especially from Zikula 1.3.0), and implementation code. Zikula's small deficiency is that some of the core modules are still tightly coupled to the framework but on the other side, the modules are completely customisable so it doesnt matter (like the Users module).
  
  Zikula's formal title at this time is actually "Zikula Application Framework".
  
  It's interesting to note that this whole idea a framework like Zikula forcing certain compliance is an interesting one. I read some Zend2 planning documents recently: Zend is the oldest and most popular PHP framework by far, but even they are now realising that sacrificing some flexibility for formal structure *is* a better approach.
  
  Remember Zikula's roots are a webportal - but not today. It's more like a Web OS where you can load up programs.
  
  We are entering an interesting time where we may a small identity crisis because Zikula Core is what we have been working on all this time and Zikula Core is this bare framework for running modules... but post Zikula 1.3.0 we will be working on the Zikula Distribution which is going to be a CMS thing since that is the main demand from users. The question will then come about how to differentiate the two. The current plan is to sideline Zikula Core, move it out of direct sight and make it something for module developers.
  
  Ultimately, user demand is going to shape what we do and how we present ourselves.
  
  Regards,
  
  Drak
  
  --
  Zikula Lead Developer
  Board Member of the Zikula Foundation
  Follow me on twitter.com/zikuladrak

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