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IE & The Differences between Compatibility Mode And Standards Mode  Bottom

  • I just ran into a curious circumstance.

    I installed the MS developer toolbar/tools in IE8. These tools let you push IE directly into what they call "Standards Mode"

    The compatibility mode which the browser offers does not seem to handle the doctype effectively for an out of the box version of BlankTheme;

    Code

    <!DOCTYPE html
         public "-//W3C//DTD XHTML 1.1//EN"
         "http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml11/DTD/xhtml11.dtd">

    seabreeze seems to work just fine

    Code

    <!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD XHTML 1.0 Strict//EN" "http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml1/DTD/xhtml1-strict.dtd">


    Using BlankTheme and menutree(prodrop) among other parts of zikula fail in compatibility mode. However using the MS web dev tools you can force the browser into IE (v#) Standards mode. Doing this allows the layouts and menus to function as designed. (or at least for the ones I have tested.) the other browsers do not seem to have an issue with either so much. (I realize there is some generalization here, but it will serve for now.)

    It is not clear to me what the difference actually is between the IE compatibility views (in the little toolbar switch for the user, which is switching between what??? the documentation was not the most clear to me,) and the Standards mode that the developer tools can force. (if someone has some insight to that I am sure many could benefit from it.)

    Also there is along this same issue the question of designing to standards or for browsers. Since Zikula can be used both on an intranet and the internet the purpose of the site implementation being open based on needs, is there an expressed "Standard" in the DOCTYPE that we should lean towards? I could infer that since SeaBreeze is the theme released with the core that,

    Code

    <!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD XHTML 1.0 Strict//EN" "http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml1/DTD/xhtml1-strict.dtd">

    is the way to go. I am hoping there is something more than an arbitrary choice here based on the flexibility of zikula. What is the ideal to strive for in the functions, so form can follow and lead in it's presentation over a long term?

    Paul
  • Here is the basics of what the the compatibility switch does, and what doctypes do what to push into standards mode (found at the following URL):
    http://msdn.microsof…s535242(VS.85).aspx

    ms535242(VS.85)

    You can use this declaration to switch Microsoft Internet Explorer 6 and later into strict standards-compliant mode. You turn the switch on by including the !DOCTYPE declaration at the top of your document, specifying a valid Label in the declaration, and in some cases, specifying the Definition and/or URL. The following table shows when standards-compliance is on or off.

    DOCTYPE --> URL Present --> URL Not Present
    No DOCTYPE present --> off --> off
    HTML (no version) --> off --> off
    HTML 2.0 --> off --> off
    HTML 3.0 --> off --> off
    HTML 4.0 --> on --> on
    HTML 4.0 Frameset --> on --> off
    HTML 4.0 Transitional --> on --> off
    HTML 4.0 Strict --> on --> on
    XHTML --> on --> on
    XML --> on --> on
    Unrecognized DOCTYPE --> on --> on

    Note In standards-compliant mode, compatibility with other versions of Internet Explorer is not guaranteed. When standards-compliant mode is switched on, the rendering behavior of documents may be different in later versions of Internet Explorer. You should not use this mode for content that is fixed in nature, such as content that is burned on a CD.


    I have seen many threads here in the forums about problems rendering in IE and have had my own too - hopefully this info can help.

    I am by no means advocating designing for a MS browser, nor any browser for that mater.
    even the the google chrome fix, is, in the long run not a real good idea but that is just my opinion.

    it would seem that even though BlankTheme declares both type and URL (for me at least using IE8) that it has not pushed IE into a standards mode via it's declaration of XHTML or an Unrecognized DOCTYPE.

    Has this occured for anyone else?

    Paul
    sorry about the funky table you can see a clean version at the URL.
  • this seems to work though the content editing men from page list is offset by like 3-400px

    Code

    <!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD XHTML 1.0 Strict//EN" "http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml1/DTD/xhtml1-strict.dtd">
    <head>
    <title><!--[title]--></title>
    meta http-equiv="X-UA-Compatible" content="IE=edge;chrome=1"
    </head>

    imagine < > around the meta statement...


    However this is targeting browsers, which sucks.



    edited by: TakeIT2, datetimebrief
  • I do not know the inside out of this stuff. I don't use IE that much.

    Keep in mind that the some of the menus for menutree (prodrop for instance) are not that new and not specifically designed for use in IE8 (see http://www.cssplay.co.uk/menus/pro_drop8.html and the tested in browsers part). Stu nicholls has newer menus already, but these are more restricted in use (see for instance http://www.cssplay.co.uk/menus/ul-multi.html, that is tested in IE8, but you need to ask permission for use of the menu).

    Does this menu http://www.dynamicdrive.com/dynamicindex1/ddlevelsmenu/index.htm work in IE8? I have that already in use for menutree. There is even a generator icon_smile http://www.dynamicdrive.com/dynamicindex1/ddlevelsmenu/generator.htm from which I have made several of those already available for menutree.

    --
    campertoday.nl, Module development, Dutch Zikula Community
  • The all Levels menu does seem to work just fine from their pages. both demos, the horizontal & vertical worked fine in IE8.

    Their page is as well :

    Code

    <!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD XHTML 1.0 Transitional//EN"
    "http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml1/DTD/xhtml1-transitional.dtd">


    IE8 is not in a standards mode, the compatibility switch is not triggered/active - the menu demos work just fine.
    And while active, the switch triggered - the menus worked fine

    Using the deve tools I notice using the switch in the IE8 browser, tuned on IE7 standards view in the dev tools for IE8.

    Forcing the IE7 mode - IE7 Standards view works fine, Quirks view, the menu CSS breaks up but the menu still seems to function.

    Switching between IE7 & IE8 standards views you can notice a more relaxed/expanded padding in the style of the menu with IE8.

    So my focus on the different modes of IE here are based on the doctype setting of their page, using the above doctype. I am pointing this out that some issues in style might be because of the doctype in a theme template, and not in your stylesheet at all - someone else will have to deal with js. :)

    *Erik
    Looks like a nice menu, and the generator seems pretty nice for designing some custom styles too. This could be a menu for the future.

    Paul



    edited by: TakeIT2, datetimebrief
  • TakeIT2

    The all Levels menu does seem to work just fine from their pages. both demos, the horizontal & vertical worked fine in IE8.

    *Erik
    Looks like a nice menu, and the generator seems pretty nice for designing some custom styles too. This could be a menu for the future.


    The future might not be that far away icon_smile since I already have made some of the menus in the menu generator for menutree in my testsite. And when they also work ok in IE8 there is nothing holding me back but the available time icon_wink The dynamicdrive license is also much more relaxed and you can use the menus everywhere. I also use it on my live camper site (see sig) already.

    --
    campertoday.nl, Module development, Dutch Zikula Community
  • Nice! - and BTW - I miss my 1970 campmobile icon_frown it has been since 1985 it is gone - may it r.i.p. icon_cool

    Ah, and your fomicula form in action too... icon_biggrin

    Erik,
    I looked at campertoday.nl here from seamonkey/suse first, than I tried in IE on winXP - it has yet to load - seamonkey/winXP no problem it loads fine. :(



    edited by: TakeIT2, datetimebrief
  • TakeIT2

    Nice! - and BTW - I miss my 1970 campmobile icon_frown it has been since 1985 it is gone - may it r.i.p. icon_cool

    yeah those older VW campers are great. We tend to have one for ourselves later on icon_biggrin

    TakeIT2

    Ah, and your fomicula form in action too... icon_biggrin

    Yep, a bit different, but the main parts are there.

    TakeIT2

    Erik,
    I looked at campertoday.nl here from seamonkey/suse first, than I tried in IE on winXP - it has yet to load - seamonkey/winXP no problem it loads fine. :(edited by: TakeIT2, datetimebrief

    So IE on winxp is not working ok? Do I get that right? For me even IE6 works fine icon_wink



    edited by: espaan, datetimebrief

    --
    campertoday.nl, Module development, Dutch Zikula Community
  • Erik

    So IE on winxp is not working ok? Do I get that right? For me even IE6 works fine

    This afternoon the site just would not load, but tonight no problem. clap

    IE DevTools

    Looks good for IE7&8 standard and compatibility view - quirks mode throws off the CSS
    - it loads in standards view, so... It's good here.

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