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  • icon_smile Nice!

    Now, we're listing the already ported templates:
    http://trac.postnuke.com/projects/blanktheme/wiki/PortedTemplates
    and finishing Docs to release the 0.9 version.
    After wide community testing 1.0 will be ready icon_smile

    --
    - Mateo T. -
    Mis principios... son mis fines
  • Mateo,

    I recently tested building a theme using BlankTheme as a base to start from.

    My thoughts:

    While its powerful, its also complex.
    The trade-off comes in simplicity versus the upgradeability, and reconfiguration of a standards / cross-compatible theme "framework".

    I was several hours into the test case when I noticed the YAML licensing - you must either have a link at the bottom of the page, or pay $59 euro per site or $119 euro per developer (ie, unlimited usage by one developer FOR clients - ie, custom work goes to a single client, not redistributed en masse).

    I don't disagree with the licensing costs (its a lot of work to maintain a well coded theme!), but presenting it more matter-of-fact to Postnuker's would probably be prudent - Non-commercial AND commercial must all have a backlink unless a license is purchased.

    Usability / Standards
    I found the original code base and resulting themes to be very well put together in their final, rendered versions. Due to the complexity (many different templates and CSS files and permutations of such depending on column choices), you must have a good grasp on CSS, sub-templating and a basic understanding of the YAML methodology to customize it to any extent. Simple styling customizations are as easy as finding the correct CSS element.

    Saying that, the CSS and templates themselves are clean and well-laid out, and well commented.

    Desires / Wish-list
    I'm always on the prowl for good, CSS based, cross-compliant themes. I love to start with a good clean base that has some built in cross-compliancy.

    What would be the perfect situation is if with YAML and BlankTheme, one could configure a basic theme and perform an "export" to provide a set of templates and CSS just for that specific configuration - cutting out the "extra" fluff that would not be used unless you choose a different theme configuration.

    The same can be done by "carving" out and combining the basic YAML templates and CSS (which is what I did when testing it - so that I know have a single template file, with a few sub-tempaltes for modules, and a single CSS, stripped of much of the YAML stuff).

    Then, a user could create a nice, clean, cross-compliant theme BASED on YAML, but not tied to it and the resulting bloat (again, a tradeoff for flexibility and future reconfigurability).
    (And the YAML docs suggest as much - remove everything your theme doesn't need in the long run.)

    As such, I see it as a good theme framework for the developer who would like to have flexibility and semi-upgradeability in their themes, or for a team that may choose the YAML framework to maintain their theme code.

    I generally theme in one-shot efforts (theme once, slight tweaks, but if a new layout or different theme is needed, start from a nice clean base again). so the benefits of YAML are a little overkill as I understand BUT it would be a benefit to someone that needs all YAML offers - screen, print, remote CSS, flexibility in layout for future changes, etc.





    edited by: uheweb, May 23, 2008 - 03:22 PM
  • Hi Nolan!
    Thanks for sharing your thoughts

    uheweb

    While its powerful, its also complex.
    The trade-off comes in simplicity versus the upgradeability, and reconfiguration of a standards / cross-compatible theme "framework".

    Trade-off, well, i didn't consider that point of view.
    I was bored to have problems with IE in my themes, and all the time spent fixing them to be cross browser compatible... without talking about accessibility and standards...

    Also, the lack of some base to play with the Xanthia magic, organize community stuff around theming, be able to share small snnipets of code like layouts, module customized presentations... many reasons to build a BlankTheme as the base to Theme Development and, in the other hand, YAML is the most flexible CSS Framework out there to support any layout... so, the trade-off is minimal from my point of view, considering that building simple themes is not that simple when we try to build cross-compatible and quality-enough themes.


    uheweb

    you must have a good grasp on CSS, sub-templating and a basic understanding of the YAML methodology to customize it to any extent. Simple styling customizations are as easy as finding the correct CSS element.

    Not like an expert in CSS, just the basis.
    For instance, look the YAML subtemplates documentation and those examples are pretty clear for someone that have a basic CSS understanding right?. We've put some efforts on the BlankTheme documentation too and explain how to customize the layouts.

    With some feedback we can do it for "CSS newbies" with successful experiences, do you agree?


    uheweb

    What would be the perfect situation is if with YAML and BlankTheme, one could configure a basic theme and perform an "export" to provide a set of templates and CSS just for that specific configuration - cutting out the "extra" fluff that would not be used unless you choose a different theme configuration.

    Well, it's a good idea. In the mid term, i'm thinking in an adaptation of the [ulr=http://builder.yaml.de]YAML builder[/url] to BlankTheme, to build customized layouts and export the htm to be copied in the /templates/includes folder...
    By now, some docs on how/where to cut out unneeded stuff can be a temporary solution.


    uheweb

    I generally theme in one-shot efforts (theme once, slight tweaks, but if a new layout or different theme is needed, start from a nice clean base again). so the benefits of YAML are a little overkill as I understand BUT it would be a benefit to someone that needs all YAML offers - screen, print, remote CSS, flexibility in layout for future changes, etc.

    Well, as i said above, i see a critical advantage on BlankTheme + YAML: Community shared stuff around theming. Shared layouts compatible between themes, modules output customizations, and much more.
    Flexibility in layout to share....

    in general, i do the same when i port OpenSource templates:
    one-shot efforts porting the specific styles (widths, margins, paddings, backgrounds in basemod.css; typography, colors in content.css) then customize specific zones (News articles styles by default), and if a new layout is needed, just change a parameter in the template, clean base styles remain reusable.

    Finally, last night we finished the BlankTheme ThemeGallery:
    http://blanktheme.org/ThemeGallery
    Four open source templates already ported,
    i'll see how to enable the Download function


    Thanks again for your thoughts Nolan icon_wink

    --
    - Mateo T. -
    Mis principios... son mis fines
  • Nice discussion and feedback.
    Keep in mind that cross browser themes with the flexibility of module specific layouts is not easy at all. That is for the real experts. But in BlankTheme you can do it without too much effort and knowledge. That's how I see the advantage.
    For example, Homepage 1 column, News 3 column with a center column below for RSS lists, PhotoGallery wider page, Calendar in 2 column, etc.


    I started to use pnThemeYaml (for PN 0.764) a few years back. I just liked the YAML template framework back then already and pnThemeYaml used Yaml as a base. When PN 0.8 came on the horizon it was a nice suprise that Mateo was already working on BlankTheme. I had already done some efforts in converting pnThemeYaml for xanthia3, so we could combine the efforts.

    --
    erikspaan.nl, avwijchen.nl

    BlankTheme, News module, zikula.nl
  • Thanks for the efforts, I think its a great option for PN.

    Once someone has a grasp of the YAML methodology, they can do quite a bit with it.

    For developers, it offers many advantages. For the lay webmaster, a way to configure and export a "consolidated" theme, where many of the benefits of YAML are there, but with a consolidated template and just a few CSS files for simplicity sake.

    The slant of some of my comments came from trying to do some fairly interesting DIV placements - overlaying divs for a hide/show effect, negative margins, etc. Trying to enable this was a little more difficult while trying to maintain YAML/blanktheme compatibility. For multicolumn, multiblock layouts, with all content contained in these blocks and columns, YAML is beneficial.

    I'm looking forward to playing with it more. Thanks for the work!

    NCM

    PS A diagram showing the make-up of a blank theme would be helpful in the docs:

    home.htm with 2col

    Code

    home.htm
    |
    - 2col.htm
    |
    - layout2_col.css (do not edit)
        |
        - ../yaml/core/slim_base.css (do not edit)

        -  screen/basemod.css (edit to control ALL layouts) - is that correct?
        -  screen/basemod_2col.css (edit to control 2col layouts) - right?
        -  screen/content.css (edit general elements - h1, p, etc. for ALL layouts.)
        - ../yaml/print/print_100_draft.css); (make copy, edit to control print layout)
     
    |
    - head.htm
       |
       - style/patches/patch_2col.css (do not edit)
           |
           - ../../yaml/core/slim_iehacks.css  (do not edit)
    |
    - style/custom/home.css


    Custom CSS files (ie, pertinent to a particular home, admin, or module template) can be called in the relevant home.htm, FAQ.htm, etc. Create a home.css with those DIV id's and link in the home.htm.

    Also, if you have a unique layout, make a copy of the 2col, 3col or grid in includes. Rename, and call it in the home.htm, FAQ.htm by (example is home based on 2col):

    Code

    <!--[include file="includes/$template.htm" layout=$layout current=$current]-->

    with

    Code

    <!--[include file="includes/home-custom2col.htm" layout=$layout current=$current]-->

    This preserves the YAML syntax (ie, 2col stying if using 2col), yet allows you to then place custom stuff on a new 2col based layout without changing the default 2col.htm on a per module template basis.

    OR

    Just copy the 2col.htm HTML into the home.htm template, and modify as desired WITHOUT calling the includes/subtemplate.

    That little map above the short tips would be an easy way to make an intro to what files go where and what files drive the CSS styling.



    edited by: uheweb, May 24, 2008 - 01:38 PM
  • Just coming back on my earlier problem. The problem with the themevariables.ini was not caused by an error in ftp transfer. The themevariables.ini is being over written and ends up empty whenever I create a new page configuration through the admin panel. This is the procedure I use to add a new active search link to the navigation bar:
    1.Create search.ini in templates/config. To do this I copy an existing ini file, say pages.ini and change page=pages.htm to page=search.htm
    2.I want a no columns template for the search page, so I copy the existing nocolumns.htm and rename it search.htm and change

    Code

    <!--[ assign var="current"  value="master" ]-->
    to

    Code

    <!--[ assign var="current"  value="search" ]-->
    and

    Code

    <!-- NoColumns template -->
    to

    Code

    <!-- Search template -->

    3.I add

    Code

    if (pnModAvailable('Search')) {
            $menu[] = array('search', _NAV_SEARCH, pnModURL('Search'), null);
    to the function.bt_userlinks.php
    4.I add language define

    Code

    ('_NAV_SEARCH','Search');
    to global.php in the language folder.
    5.All files are saved and uploaded to the server.
    6.Via the themes admin panel I create a new page configuration for search using the previously created search.ini
    At this point the themevariables.ini is overwritten and I am back to the log in problems etc caused by the lack of info for the master template. I upload my good copy of the themevariables.ini and all is ok.


    --
    David
  • @Nolan: Good point!
    I've though something like that icon_smile
    I'll update some docs on our Trac Wiki with that info and tell you icon_wink
    Thanks.


    @David: Ouch!
    Seems like a bug of the Theme admin panel David.
    Is your /templates/config folder writable?


    By now, you can add the Search module manually:
    1) you have the new search.ini file, with a new page=search.htm: OK icon_smile
    2) Go to the pageconfigurations.ini and add the Search module there:

    Code

    [Search]
    file = search.ini
    upload it and there you go icon_wink

    --
    - Mateo T. -
    Mis principios... son mis fines
  • Quote

    Is your /templates/config folder writable?


    That's it ! All the .ini files were writable but the directory was not icon_frown

    The system warns when the .ini files are not writable, it does not warn when only the config folder is not writable ! This needs to be corrected.
    Mateo thanks for your help and advice.

    --
    David
  • You're welcome David!
    I've reported this issue in the tracker into a Theme related bug,
    and if i have time tomorrow, i'll build a patch to show that warning.
    Enjoy BlankTheme icon_wink

    --
    - Mateo T. -
    Mis principios... son mis fines
  • @Nolan:
    Forgot to mention here that YAML has a new minor release (3.0.5 [24.05.08])
    http://www.yaml.de/e…log/version-3x.html

    The license texts of commercial licenses (YAML-C)
    have been revised and clarified in relation to reproduction and redistribution


    So, have to take another look to the text...

    --
    - Mateo T. -
    Mis principios... son mis fines
  • Sorry to dig up this old thread, but I noticed the here license restriction on YAML.

    Is that true?
    All themes where the theme author used YAML must carry a link to YAML?

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