Postnuke has been in the 0.7-phase for over six years now (see drew vogels blog). The first mention of 0.8 I could find is from november 2001 (see archive.org). I admit I'm not a very active member of the community but have been following PN since 0.7 came out. Lately I've been hanging around Sunbird/Lightning and saw how the community is working there, so I got some of my ideas from that project.
PN is reaching 0.8 and last weekend (called the final bugfixing weekend) I did a clean install of 0.8. I tried to imagine what PN would look like for a new admin. Unfortunately at first sight there's not much news except for the categories-system. Of course I know under the hood there have been tons of modifications but not having a wysiwyg-editor by default (even the javascript-tags got postphoned till 0.81) for example is something a CMS can't have. So, knowing about the postnuke modular structure, I downloaded the wysiwyg-editor from the NOC and installed it. Unfortunatley, still no luck, I had to alter the theme, edit some PHP-files (I thought). Searching where to alter the textareas I finally came to the tpl-files and there I had to search through commented and uncommented code which made this a hell.
Back in 2001 postnuke was a relief coming from other CMS-systems like phpnuke. When coming to postnuke now, I see no reason one should switch. What makes postnuke appealing for a new user who wants to do a test-install to see how everything works? One first has to go through tons of documentation to find the information they need and edit PHP-files to get the basics working.
Revolutionary system
Postnuke was revolutionary and I think we (devs) owe it to the users to have a stunning release once again. I read the piece about the module-installer and this is something which can be called revolutionary. 0.8 shouldn't be released without this IMHO.
Communication
Where have the developers gone? Has the community fallen apart? I remember the vibrant discussions, support etc we had on the mailing lists. These are still linked from the main page but no-one uses these anymore. Please, PN-team recreate teh community, be open in your external and internal communications. We have no idea how you communicate, what you're doing, except for reading PN news.
Website
The usability of the website isn't really great. I did some small bugreports in the past already but I think before new visitors are attracted to postnuke the website-content really needs to be revised. Why is it so hard to get to the community? Case-studies have non-working links, PN-devs hasn't seen any activity in almost a year, mailinglists aren't used anymore, is the about-us part still up-to-date etc etc. In the past there was docs.postnuke.com, devs.postnuke.com etc which was great. Too bad this has gone.
$NewName
There has been talk about $NewName for being the killer-app. This is a good thing but to be really a killer-app I think it has to come out as v1.0, so please keep it under the hood till all the problems with 0.x versions are fixed and the module-install system is working. I know it will be hard to keep this secret but when releasing $NewName everything has to be perfect. Why invest money and resources when all people see is outdated information and links and a system which is really hard to get to know and needs hand-editing still after that.
Multilanguage support
There are translation-teams eagerly awaiting new releases of PN and it's modules. Before a new 0.x version of PN is released there should be ample localized versions. Please setup a string-freeze after your confident with the next 0.x version and give people time to create localized versions before releasing.
NOC
The NOC it one of the great things postnuke offers for developers. Anyone can start a project and use the forums etc. Unfortunately the NOC has been down quite some times in the last years (and browsing my mailarchives I saw it was the same in the starting-period of the NOC back in 2003). The NOC should stay but unfortunately some of the functions are really lacking (I'd like to subscribe to bugmail for instance which is not possible, is it?).
WYSIWYG
As said above PN needs a wysiwyg editor out of the box or at least insofar that when the module is installed it works out of the box. Now the textareas for i.e. news are as primitive as they were back in 2001 (they even have the same width). All default modules should have the scribite-functions for the textareas included.
Ajax
I like the work on the Ajax-enhancements. For $NewName 1.0 this should be enhanced as much as possible to really have a stunning system. The dutch website retecool.com really has a stunning Ajax-interface which may even be overdone but more Ajax would be really welcome.
Modules
The modules-repository on the PN-site isnt't really clear and should be reworked. Perhaps the same holds for the themes-repository. Of course with the new module-installer this will be improved but if people want to add modules later it still has to be easy to find them.
Themes
The base-install for PN comes with three themes now which don''t get the max out of PN AFAIK. I'm one of few people who use collapsible blocks (at least no-one really seems interested) but having collapsible blocks which utilize CSS or even Ajax would be really cool. Of course all the packaged themes should work flawlesly from the first install.
Just some thoughts from someone who isn't an active developer in addition to the post of dks on the 14th which I fully support. I know it's easy talking for someone who isn't really active but I still hope the core-devs will think about this, like kaffering.de stated on the 11th. I do appreciate the work and want to thank all contributers for their efforts, this was meant as constructive criticism.
edited by: bvdbos, Jan 16, 2008 - 11:23 PM
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Thoughts about 0.8 and beyond
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**unknown user**
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Posted: Jan 16, 2008 - 10:14 AM
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Posted: Jan 16, 2008 - 11:27 AM
Really good points!
I think that some third party devs like us can send patches with the features that we think are missed. I'm on that task... i think i'll build a patch for the JSQuicktags textareas.
Mailing lists:
I know that the module-devs mailing list has recent activity. I don't know others... but about the NOC subscriptions, i guess it was deactivated because spambots attacked a lot the NOC's lists.
Multilanguage support:
on my own risk, i have almost complete the Spanish translation and now i'm receiving feedback of the spanish community. The commits let me know the minor changes over the language files. I think that anybody can begin to translate the Core right now. I think that not too much changes will be commited.
NOC:
We must wait to the migration of the NOC to other platform... it's sad.
Modules & Themes database:
I'm sure that Axel and Simon will release a very modern database. They're skilled developers and i think that the final result will be very impressive. I'm impressed just with the Demo of EasyDist
(http://modulestudio.de/EasyDist/).
Well, just as my conclusion, i think that we can contribute in this point of the development.
We can solve many details discussed and just have to compromise our efforts too.
Long life to the PostNuke Community!
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- Mateo T. -
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**unknown user**
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Posted: Jan 16, 2008 - 07:51 PM
Thanks, just to clarify my post a bit:
nestormateo
i think i'll build a patch for the JSQuicktags textareas.
I think we should create patches for both the JS Quicktags and for scribite (So also all default themes work with wysiwyg) though the scribite module doesn't have to be included by default.
nestormateo
I know that the module-devs mailing list has recent activity.
I guess I missed out on that one, I'll review wether I'm subscribed. Too bad the forums don't have a reply-function by mail like the NOC has. That way we could have all discussions in one place, forums, mail and news through gname.
nestormateo
I'm impressed just with the Demo of EasyDist
That's what I meant to say too, I like it so much I think it should work before 0.8 comes out. Really great, this is ons of the main killer-parts which can put PN back on the map...
gr
Bas -
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Posted: Jan 17, 2008 - 12:27 AM
Bas: What task of your list would you like to take over?
It's not like we don't know much of what you write - but sometime we simply don't need people to write long lists of "How I would do everything better" but people who pick up a task and finish it.
You don't have to be a programmer. You don't have to be a designer. You don't have to have a lot of time. But if you pick out a single task and promise to do it, we would be very happy.
--
best regards from Kiel, sailing city
Steffen Voss
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Posted: Jan 17, 2008 - 12:30 AM
With regard specificaly to jsquicktags i've identified a problem with this component - it simply won't work for multiple textareas on a page (e.g. the news module) so there's a need to re-think this one a bit.
-Mark
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Posted: Jan 17, 2008 - 05:28 PM
bvdbos
Of course I know under the hood there have been tons of modifications but not having a wysiwyg-editor by default (even the javascript-tags got postphoned till 0.81) for example is something a CMS can't have. So, knowing about the postnuke modular structure, I downloaded the wysiwyg-editor from the NOC and installed it. Unfortunatley, still no luck, I had to alter the theme, edit some PHP-files (I thought). Searching where to alter the textareas I finally came to the tpl-files and there I had to search through commented and uncommented code which made this a hell.
This is a good point. A wysiwyg editor should come installed with any of the custom distributions without the need to edit themes.
bvdbos
Communication
Where have the developers gone? Has the community fallen apart? I remember the vibrant discussions, support etc we had on the mailing lists. These are still linked from the main page but no-one uses these anymore. Please, PN-team recreate teh community, be open in your external and internal communications. We have no idea how you communicate, what you're doing, except for reading PN news.
Personally I'm fine with the forums and never liked mailing lists. Also, with all the comments I've seen recently on the past levels of communication and participation, we need to understand that rebuilding a community just takes a little time and a lot of participation.
bvdbos
Website
I think this would be best served in a separate thread. I'll just say that I still find it confusing and would love to give some in depth feedback if it was welcome.
bvdbos
Modules
The modules-repository on the PN-site isnt't really clear and should be reworked. Perhaps the same holds for the themes-repository. Of course with the new module-installer this will be improved but if people want to add modules later it still has to be easy to find them.
Yes
kaffeeringe.de
Bas: What task of your list would you like to take over?
I find this comment annoying and counter-productive. What's wrong with an intelligent conversations on ways to improve Postnuke?
kaffeeringe.de
It's not like we don't know much of what you write - but sometime we simply don't need people to write long lists of "How I would do everything better" but people who pick up a task and finish it.
In order for people to pick up a task and finish it, they'd need to know what needed to be picked up and finished. Perhaps a list should be written.......thanks Bas
edited by: dks, Jan 17, 2008 - 09:30 PM -
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Posted: Jan 17, 2008 - 08:57 PM
dks
In order for people to pick up a task and finish it, they'd need to know what needed to be picked up and finished. Perhaps a list should be written.......
IMHO this is the feature tracker
--
Guite | ModuleStudio -
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Posted: Jan 17, 2008 - 09:51 PM
Feature tracker seems more like a wish list from random drop ins, not a look into what devs need help or assistance with to move the core project along. Granted, someone could hop in and start filling feature requests, but with lock-down in the core for .8 now, no new features will be making it in...right?
So, what can be done right now to make the core more usable. A quick "wanted" poster by the devs with the ability to assign to a PN forum user so that everyone knows who's working on something would help tremendously. A simple...man, we don't have time to track this bugger down as we're dealing with big stuff, so can someone nail this down and let us just know where the proglem is...and perhaps find a patch...type of communication would be helpful to less us know where to pitch in without duplicating efforts or working on something that will never really make it into postnuke. -
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Posted: Jan 18, 2008 - 07:13 AM
Guite
dks
In order for people to pick up a task and finish it, they'd need to know what needed to be picked up and finished. Perhaps a list should be written.......
IMHO this is the feature tracker
There is no discussion in the feature tracker.
-
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Posted: Jan 18, 2008 - 08:29 AM
We just published a call for volunteer and only few people answered. Is there anything for you on the list?
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best regards from Kiel, sailing city
Steffen Voss
Member of the Zikula Steering Committee
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Posted: Jan 18, 2008 - 09:00 AM
uheweb
Feature tracker seems more like a wish list from random drop ins, not a look into what devs need help or assistance with to move the core project along. Granted, someone could hop in and start filling feature requests, but with lock-down in the core for .8 now, no new features will be making it in...right?
So, what can be done right now to make the core more usable. A quick "wanted" poster by the devs with the ability to assign to a PN forum user so that everyone knows who's working on something would help tremendously. A simple...man, we don't have time to track this bugger down as we're dealing with big stuff, so can someone nail this down and let us just know where the proglem is...and perhaps find a patch...type of communication would be helpful to less us know where to pitch in without duplicating efforts or working on something that will never really make it into postnuke.
The trackers systems are public, there is little stopping anyone from jumping in a troubleshooting or submitting patches or enhancements... Look to see if the one your interested is assigned to anyone... Drop a note to the tracker.
--
David Pahl
Zikula Support Team -
**unknown user**
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Posted: Jan 18, 2008 - 04:04 PM
just some thoughts by an enduser :).
i came from phpnuke to PN about 2 years ago, due to security issues with phpnuke at the time. basically i would consider myself an interested and motivated amateur :).
at first i was positive impressed with the generally much less troublesome use of PN compared to phpnuke. kinda easy - toss in, activate, mostly works LOL.
anyway, guess i like to say nice job sofar. i have .8 as a sandbox running as well on one machine. looks neat and cleaned up sofar, has hickups (guess to be expected with an RC) but somehow failed sofar to create the big AHHHHH! WOWOWOW effect.
once again, thats my user impression of it. unfortunately i have not the faintest clue how to write code or the likes. i getting by fixing minor probs by reading the forums here and search the web in general, slowly get to the point that i can guess my way to CSS stylesheets and modify them to my likings and needsand somehow get most stuff up and running with luck, being a pain in the a** torturing ppl for solutions etc.... guess you get the general idea LOL
so from this perspective - i wouldnt mind to help at all, even with having little time. i could see me working on language packs and the likes. but i would like to see some place where you can collaborate with ppl working on the same project to avoid useless parallel efforts. might exist - point me in the right direction plz :)
as for .8 specifically, i was somehow hoping for the following improvements:
- a more flexible "home" page, kinda like what this v4bnews (i think that was the name) module tried to do
- i have to agree with the text editor issue, something easy to use, allowing integration of pics etc in text - kinda call it a rich text editor as core function would be awesome
- a core theme thats easy to modify (at least in basics) without becoming a CSS nerd would be a huge selling point to new users. one of the first themes i ever used with PN was j. enckes fleximple theme. pure genius compared to many others out there. it has hickups, i wish he would update and fix it for 0.8. tableless, easy to change color palettes, easy to adjust basic block settings etc.
something like that as a core theme could make things much more likeable for the total newbie
just a first couple thoughts
thx for bearing with me, mac -
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Posted: Jan 18, 2008 - 05:19 PM
http://dpahl.com/index.php?theme=Fleximple like that? that was 2 mins of work... I am sure it may have a few bugs.. .8 provides a theme upgrader, it is far from perfect, but it does the brunt of the work.
Anyway, please expect distributions to come with scribrite editor. If I have to, I will make one myself.
No, PN 8 does come with the Wow effect out of the box... You have to provide that. But what it does do, is make that effect easier to create. That said, the introduction of Ajax to the core, make life somewhat easier for manipulating orders and what not. There is a lot there which you can expect to start to see extending to modules, ect.
Again, expect to see distributions with extensive theme packs... I think the included theme are pretty basic. I wouldn't use them.
As far as language packs are concerned you drop an email to: David Nelson (david.on.the.web) at gmail.
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David Pahl
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Posted: Jan 19, 2008 - 01:39 AM
tekmac
i have .8 as a sandbox running as well on one machine. looks neat and cleaned up sofar, has hickups
I hope you reported all "hickups" - we can't read your mind (at least until Axel finished his pnMindRead)
--
best regards from Kiel, sailing city
Steffen Voss
Member of the Zikula Steering Committee
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Posted: Jan 19, 2008 - 01:43 AM
Quote
No WOW effect
Well I just build a page with .8, a free theme, Content, Mediashare, Formicula and some other hooks. I DIDN'T HAVE TO TOUCH A SINGLE TEMPLATE AND THE SITE LOOKS JUST GREAT! - And I know how to handle templates!
So THAT was a WOW-effect for me.
You'll see, when you really work with .8 that much has improved in detail: For example installing 6 modules was done in 10 seconds: regenerate the list, switch to "not installed", click install 6 times, switch to "inactive" click activate 6 times. Done.
--
best regards from Kiel, sailing city
Steffen Voss
Member of the Zikula Steering Committee
Read The Zikulan's Blog "If you want people to RTFM, make a better FM!"
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