I was just playing with google trends with postnuke, phpnuke, joomla and drupal - mambo I left out becuase the name gets polluted with a lot of other searches:
http://www.google.com/trends?q=postnuke%2C+phpnuke%2C+joomla%2C+drupal&ctab=0&geo=all&date=all
I was doing this because it's got me stuffed why postnuke is continually dropping in popularity as the codebase improves. I have extensive knowledge in working with all the above mentioned platforms and I can say from experience that the Postnuke codebase / API system is far superior than any of the others - no disrespect, but to me the others are really phpnukeish, mishmash type affairs.
It saddens me becuase I do love to work with Postnuke, but from a commercial point of view it is just no longer feasible, ie 90 percent of my custom is coming from Joomla now (which sux because it is difficult to develop for).
The interesting thing about Joomla is it's fast rise to fame, I know it is based on the Mambo system, but still it got popular really fast. The reason behind this I think is marketing, they really sold it, and sold it well. They now have over 1000 extensions, and many more coming each day. The huge userbase is fueling so much commercial interest and 3rd party devs are rushing to capitilise on this.
Now I would like to know what steps Postnuke Management have taken in marketing, ie what have you done in the last few years in regards to marketing Postnuke, making it more popular? Do we have a Marketing manager?
-Lobos
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Posted: Mar 02, 2007 - 01:53 AM
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Posted: Mar 02, 2007 - 02:09 AM
Hi Lobos,
I've had a number of discussions internally with team members about this, and we all agree that PostNuke needs better marketing. The plan was to really push .8, from about when we release RC1 (the German community has already written a series of articles due to be published in a high profile German magazine shortly). We need the same thing to happen in the English speaking community, and with a sustained effort increasing PostNuke's popularity should be easy. As you said, PostNuke has everything it needs (as of .8) to be really competitive in the CMS market.
You mentioned a marketing manager... Would you be volunteering?
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Posted: Mar 02, 2007 - 03:57 AM
You mentioned a marketing manager... Would you be volunteering?
Well going by my track record of marketing my own projects, I don't think I am the one you want for this job as I have failed dismally in marketing myself and I would not like to be responsible for messing things up with PN.
Maybe it would be a good to post a "position available" type advert in the news, I am sure you will find some much more talented than me to the job :)
But anyway it's nice to know you guys are on track :)
-Lobos
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Posted: Mar 02, 2007 - 10:27 AM
My experience with "Position Available"-posts is not too positive. It attracts people who have an attension span of 14 days or so.
But you are right. Marketing is the major flaw of Postnuke. But somehow there seem to be no people around who are interested in this kind of work. I am happy that pn.com looks far better for a year now.
Simon is right: Axel Guckelsberger and I published a 3 part workshop in the biggest German PHP magazin (called PHP-Magazin
) And Axel has contact to another such magazine. I don't know if I have enough time for this project as I am currently trying to pass my final exams at the university.
I don't think you can expect much initiative from the the core team or the international foundation. There simply is nobody who is willing and able to do more marketing than now. Which does not mean that we would not appreciate and support community initiatives.
My way of trying to do marketing is trying to spread knowledge within the community. Here are the people who are already convinced of PostNuke and they can better convince other of "their" system when they produce cool websites.
BTW: http://www.google.co…=0&geo=all&date=all
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Posted: Mar 02, 2007 - 05:24 PM
BOSE... Better sound through marketing...
Don't get me wrong I like and use Bose but they are not even close to the best product for most (consumer) applications, but people see the name and that is all they need to land the sale.
I first used PHP-Nuke just because that is what came up in Google, then as I looked into it I switched to Post Nuke for security reasons.
It's all about marketing!
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Posted: Mar 03, 2007 - 02:49 AM
Hi All,
When PN was started there was a 'buzz' about the project. We've been around so long we've lost that but we should and can get it back. I did a quick search and found this article that might be of interest, http://www.va-interactive.com/inbusiness/editorial/sales/articles/creatingbuzz.html.
My efforts to promote PN has been on a local level similar to Steffen. I've started a webdesign meetup and have 'evangelized' PN to the members.
I think a planned, concerted effort from the base can make a difference -- along with getting accepted into the Google Summer of Code project. Has anyone followed up on that project? I know it was mentioned on the list and would be a great way to kick off the 'buzz' campaign.
Anyone interested? I am willing to contribute but am busy with building online courses and teaching -- so I won't have alot of 'extra' time but definitely interested in working with others to get it done.
Any other ideas? Theme contest? I'm sure the PNSF could donate some prize money -- we could also get others to donate items.
Each one of us is a marketing person for our respective communities beyond PN. What tools are needed to introduce PN to your clients/friends? What can be done to make getting the message out easier? Can we create those amongst ourselves or do we need to 'hire' someone to get it done? Thoughts?
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Posted: Mar 03, 2007 - 03:26 AM
Here are a few thoughts:
1. Some time and energy should be applied to deciding which markets to target first. One of the basic concepts of marketing is the need to understand who your ideal customer is. Marketing aimed at coders won't work for folks setting up sites to share family photos....Are we going to market to corporations, small business, hobbyists, gamers, coders, NGOs and volunteer organizations, fan clubs.....
2. Having identified some section(s) of the market as first targets, then identify a key or popular or frequently visited site in that market niche. Contact them and offer to do up a wicked good (I live in Maine) PN site and teach them how to use it (free). Then you get the visibility of a working site using PN in a target market niche.
3. Suggestion #2 could also be done on a smaller scale with a section or a site if a big player didn't want to make a huge change. Or they might be thinking about adding services or a subsidiary site that could be done in PN.
4. The membership here could contact their local adult education or community colleges and offer to do a course in setting up a site with PN. This doesn't have to be extremely complex or aimed at power users. In fact, probably better not to - just how to set up a basic site, intro to admin, themes and adding content. (I called the local adult ed and community college contact people to ask about the feasibility of this. Drooling, they asked how soon I could send them a blurb to put in their next published offering.) Perhaps there should be some sort of reward system or honor roll for members who do this?
5. The membership here could each contact some of the local not-for-profit organizations in their community and see if they have any web needs or would like to see what a site done with PN would look like and how it would be easy to maintain and manage. Again, how about rewards of some sort here for this?
6. How about a deal with people or places that do themes or (especially) graphics/logos for a discount for PN users? This can be a powerful incentive for small groups, who often are faced with the choice of doing amateurish graphics on their own or breaking their budget to pay someone.
My personal opinion (and I'm a doctor, not a marketer, so take this opinion for what it is worth....) is that any marketing we do should include stuff aimed at the basic user.
Peter
edited by: pheski, Mar 03, 2007 - 10:27 AM
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Posted: Mar 03, 2007 - 03:37 AM
I agree with all you said.
IMHO another very import thing is to have a really good default theme becouse the first impression is often the most important.
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Posted: Mar 03, 2007 - 04:03 AM
Light a fire. Change the name. -
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Posted: Mar 03, 2007 - 04:19 AM
flic, you're not the first to suggest this but after almost six years a name change for the project doesn't seem prudent. However, naming the software is not a bad idea -- something similar to what Mozilla has done with Firefox and Thunderbird.
Got suggestions?
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Posted: Mar 03, 2007 - 04:31 AM
I don't know but PostNuke sounds like something that came out of the microwave that no one wants to eat. Maybe a name that is light, airy, fresh I suppose. Not so German like, and I happen to be of German descent. -
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Posted: Mar 03, 2007 - 04:36 AM
Light, airy, fresh -- hmmmm -- air freshner :)
I'm not very creative today so I don't have any suggestions either -- but I'm sure we've got some creative people in the community. Sounds like we should ask for suggestions from everyone then take a vote. :)
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Posted: Mar 03, 2007 - 04:49 AM
Now that's a good idea. Sounds like you are being creative to me.
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Posted: Mar 03, 2007 - 05:02 AM
pheski
Here are a few thoughts:
1. Some time and energy should be applied to deciding which markets to target first. One of the basic concepts of marketing is the need to understand who your ideal customer is. Marketing aimed at coders won't work for folks setting up sites to share family photos....Are we going to market to corporations, small business, hobbyists, gamers, coders, NGOs and volunteer organizations, fan clubs.....
Taking this one step further is reaching out and supporting PN's 'first level' partners, i.e., third party devs, web designers, hosting companies, Cpanel/Ensim, etc. They then reach out to the end users through their work with PN. Then supporting them by providing tools/resources to help them reach out to their customers.
pheski
2. Having identified some section(s) of the market as first targets, then identify a key or popular or frequently visited site in that market niche. Contact them and offer to do up a wicked good (I live in Maine) PN site and teach them how to use it (free). Then you get the visibility of a working site using PN in a target market niche.
Then partnering/supporting first level partners with these efforts through recognition on the site or other ways (suggestions welcome).
pheski
3. Suggestion #2 could also be done on a smaller scale with a section or a site if a big player didn't want to make a huge change. Or they might be thinking about adding services or a subsidiary site that could be done in PN.
Great suggestion -- could be worked into a system of recognition.
pheski
4. The membership here could contact their local adult education or community colleges and offer to do a course in setting up a site with PN. This doesn't have to be extremely complex or aimed at power users. In fact, probably better not to - just how to set up a basic site, intro to admin, themes and adding content. (I called the local adult ed and community college contact people to ask about the feasibility of this. Drooling, they asked how soon I could send them a blurb to put in their next published offering.) Perhaps there should be some sort of reward system or honor roll for members who do this?
Agreed, honor roll/reward system should be implemented for PN 'cheerleaders/promoters'! Have any suggestions?
pheski
5. The membership here could each contact some of the local not-for-profit organizations in their community and see if they have any web needs or would like to see what a site done with PN would look like and how it would be easy to maintain and manage. Again, how about rewards of some sort here for this?
Again great suggestion that should be worked into whatever program develops from this thread.
pheski
6. How about a deal with people or places that do themes or (especially) graphics/logos for a discount for PN users? This can be a powerful incentive for small groups, who often are faced with the choice of doing amateurish graphics on their own or breaking their budget to pay someone.
Great suggestion, I can provide a discount -- then a letter needs to be drafted to use in inviting other design firms outside the community to introduce them to the concept and the benefits they would get for getting involved and joining the program.
pheski
My personal opinion (and I'm a doctor, not a marketer, so take this opinion for what it is worth....) is that any marketing we do should include stuff aimed at the basic user.
We won't hold being a doctor against you. :) BTW: What kind of medicine do you practice? Just in case we need medical advice ;)
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Posted: Mar 03, 2007 - 05:33 AM
I'd suggest "Mark8" as new name. PostNuke would be nothing without Mark West and the new beginning came with Postnuke .8 - Moreover it has an dynamic and powerful appeal.
"Marketing" always sounds like booking banners or paying for ads - I am sure this is not the right kind of marketing for an open source project. We don't have to sell anything. We only want to attract more active community members so that we can all profit from the other's work.
People who only set up their family website will always find their way to a system that allows them to do this easily. Moreover our time is limited, so we have to contact the "multipliers" just like pheski suggested.
How can you gain the attention of the coding league? IMHO we could do that by showing them, how flexible and effective programming with PostNuke is. This could for example be done, if we find someone to rewrite a popular software for PostNuke.
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Read The Zikulan's Blog "If you want people to RTFM, make a better FM!"
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