Dizkus

No.

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Regards,
Simon

itbegins.co.uk - Zikula Consulting

Please read the Support Guide

What promise did I make with my post that I could not keep (since you are quoting it)?

You can easily start testing your module under the .8 API using a latest snapshot. Maybe registering at the postnuke-commits mailinglist will prove that everybody is working hard, and from the changes made you can easily see that most changes made to the code are tuning, and not adding new functionality.

As Hammerhead said: no guarantees.



edited by: Teb, Jan 03, 2007 - 09:14 AM

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-- Teb
-- Dutch Zikula Community

Support questions in a Personal Message will be ignored. Use the forums at all times!

There is a question: how many years I/anybody who provides reasonable portal can wait for the next version? For whatever stupid reason after posts in August I thoughth that we will have 0.8 before the end of year. I even wrote special article about this great news to polish PN site.

And what? Nothing. My module is ready and as said I can now test my module. Maybe 2 months, maybe 2 years. No quarantees.

Guys, Have you realised that other projects (like e.g. Joomla) provides reasonable documenation, new version are delivered and new modules are comming almost every day. Why I'm still here (obvious question)? Because I created my site on PN and I love this system. But I do not understand how any project can be so badly organised.

You can tell me - as in fact Hammerhead did - shut up! And finally I'll do and switch to another CMS (as many others already did).

Are you really sure that you do good job?

As you wish buddy, I wouldn't even rush and force the Dev's to release something incomplete because facing those problems further down the line is worse than waiting for a complete system which is more secure.

If you like Joomla then switch, no one is stopping you...


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-James

Guess the point is said and taken, no need to continue this endless discussion. Everyone is working hard and progression can be followed by following the SVN commits.

Is your module .8 only? Yep then wait. There exists no other OS CMS that can guarantee anything.

If you love PN, try adding your efforts into it. Help us (the community) by debugging the latest .8, any help is appreciated. Jump in if you see a "help wanted" of "testers wanted" scream from the Devs. That's what I do, and is all I can do.

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-- Teb
-- Dutch Zikula Community

Support questions in a Personal Message will be ignored. Use the forums at all times!

How many years are you using PN? I remember that 0.723 was planned to be the last one bef 0.8, then we had small update 0.726 and again the last bef 0.8 - 0.75, and then for whatever reason 4 other versions 76-764. I'm waiting for new quality (called 0.8) already 3 years. My english is too poor to understand why you used "rush" and "force" in this situation.



And others too. The last one will stwitch the light.

Again: are you really sure that you do good job?

You have to realize that the development team of .723 simply wasn't the same group of people as there is now. What we've had since then is a lot of work to bring the level of functionality up to what's required by a modern CMS and a few releases to introduce some of that technology as early as possible.

I'd consider the following - .75 is about 20% of .8x code, .76 is about 40% if .8x code so while a full .8x release isn't available some of what forms .8x is already there (and thus is stable and tested). I've said already that I believe .72x -> .8x would have been too much of a single jump.

'Are we doing a good job?' you ask? I don't know, thats for others to decide...but what I can state with absolute certainty is that everyone is working as hard as they can and as much as time allows.

-Mark

Teb,
You are right that endless discussion which looks like: "when?" "we don't know, maybe in 2 months, maybe in 2 years" has no sense at all.

I expected a bit more out-of-box thinking from your (meaning PN team) site. Example: if you cannot close big scope of 0.8 maybe it would be good to cut-out less critical part (I don't know, maybe support for Oracle) and to deliver new consistent API with Xantia in predictable time.

I'm absolutely sure that most of people will feel much better with very specific calendar. E.g.:
- Jan 2006 - Xantia
- AUg 2006 - new API
- Dez 2006 - documentation
- Jun 2007 - Oracle support

Not too many people are happy with never ending development with approach "it's great because we have still a lot of commits at SVN". Plenty of PN users do not understand what SVN stands for. That's why they have choosen postnuke: they are not able to clue-up good site with stand-alone components. They just want to run a site in 5 minutes, maybe few hours.

We've already taken that approach - you're reading too much into a number....

I can't remember the dates of release so i'll post version numbers instead

0.75 - Xanthia, pnRender
0.76 - System modules templated and fully API compliant
Ajax enhancement pack - Ajax functionality

If we'd named .75 to .8, .76 to .9 and .8 to 1.0 then would we be having this same discussion? What I'm getting at is this discussion about the functionality or simply the version number?

-Mark

I think the biggest mistake / confusion is version numbering, and somewhat relates to your scope-argument. This discussion would probably not have taken place if .75 was called .8 (templated output available for core, themes and modules), and .76x was called .9x (with updated API) and now we are waiting voor 1.0 (framework splitted from extensions and Database abstraction layer).

At this moment I only see "I am waiting for .8 for 3 years". Somewhere I read a nice summary (I thought written by user "Come") of what has been changed from .6 to .76 already. It's becoming a 'number' issue.

I think I rather see the question "I have got this neat module and want it to work with PostNuke, but your API should be updated, when can I expect that?". Again, is your module pnApi compliant? Then it should work under both .76x as .8. Did you make use of the new Object Library? Then it is only .8 compatible. And you have to wait...

Don't get me wrong, I know that waiting is annoying, and not having a deadline is even more annoying. But looking at a DevTeam working almost every day on the codebase in their free spare time, I would never want to even speak of deadlines. Broken deadlines are called "lies", so why give them in my humble opinion. The calendar is something for project management where deadlines are common or for commercial purposes. But I am not a developer, I just try to communicate the progress back to the community and help out debugging and testing where I can.

Reason why I pointed YOU to SVN is because YOU understand what it is (since you are e module author, you understand the content of those mails). For all other people, I personally am writing the Development Updates every three weeks. No hard knowledge required, and anyone can see what has been done.

And that is currently still possible, and will be still possible in the future AFAIK. I do know that a lot of users are quite happy with the current codebase (as long as it works fast, stable and secure, why upgrade), and that developers / theme authors are happy with the both .7 and .8 framework.

I am sorry if you did not get an answer to your questions, and if we did not fullfill your expectations. We all do what we can, in all faith to have the best project management that both fullfills the needs of the community, as the capacities and time schedule of the developers. Guess it is hard to make everybody happy, but we all (including the Dev Team) intend to.

--
-- Teb
-- Dutch Zikula Community

Support questions in a Personal Message will be ignored. Use the forums at all times!

Cool... typing for twenty minutes... and Mark beats me with the same argument. I have to shorten my replies here...

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-- Teb
-- Dutch Zikula Community

Support questions in a Personal Message will be ignored. Use the forums at all times!

It is true to say that .8 has been in development 3 years now yes. What it's not true to say is that in that time .7x hasn't advanced at all. As has already been mentioned, in the past three years we've seen the introduction of Xanthia and pnRender. This has allowed modules like Pagesetter and pnForum to be introduced and become widespread. Many site administrators (myself included) can't imagine running a site without pnRendered modules now.

.8 technology has slowly been introduced into the .7x branch, keeping the current codebase fresh and current and allowing third party developers to develop .8 compatible modules ahead of release time. The perception is that PostNuke isn't progressing because we aren't at version .9 or 1.0 now, but with the technologies currently in .8 I think PostNuke is some distance ahead of the competition, Joomla, Drupal etc are still some way from matching .8 in terms of the core technologies.

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Regards,
Simon

itbegins.co.uk - Zikula Consulting

Please read the Support Guide

Mark, Teb,

Thanks for prompt answer. After those messages I see that this could be only communication issue. But - again and again - a lot of people do not understand too and they are confused at similar level like me.
And they are already e.g. Joomla users because there everything is clear, documented etc.
Security? Who cares about security at small schol site?

Guess that that school site should be our audience, but the ICT manager who chooses the CMS is _not_ our target audience. Too bad, true, but PostNuke is not just some paging or blogging CMS. It's a framework, C3MS, and so on. Any PN user with good sense for security and extendibility would not leave PostNuke IMHO.

We agree then I guess. Hope you are one of those users with faith in this project. At least I am and will stay.

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-- Teb
-- Dutch Zikula Community

Support questions in a Personal Message will be ignored. Use the forums at all times!

Everybody else that is on the same server will definitely care about security when the one site on the server gets hacked due to a lack of security and brings them all down. You don't have to be a large corporation or hugely popular site to get hacked -- once a hole is found, hackers will search for any and all sites with that hole. They don't care how little the site is, it's an opportunity into a possibly much larger attack...

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