Zikula Community

• **unknown user**
  
  

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  Posted: Sep 06, 2005 - 03:53 AM

  Hey guys, I know there is a lot of hallabalu about charging for a Opensource module.
  
  I am just wondering if the GPL states if we cannot sell a upgraded version of a module.
  
  I paid a substantial amount of money to have PNESP upgrade to 760, so far it is working. I would like to recoup my investment and I am thinking of charging a nominal fee of $5 for a copy of the upgraded version.
  
  But I wanted to post here first so I could pretty much start a flame war but make sure there is nothing preventing me from doing so other then a few moaners and whiners. ;)
  
  I think its the same as a few people pooling money together to pay a developer to make/update a module. The only difference is anyone who want to come on board pays only $5 and I fronted the money.
  
  What do you guys think?
  
  I will add the module shortley to the Postnuke Directory and a payment link.
  Once I get a group co-pay I will email you a copy of the program.

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• CliffT
  
  

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  Posted: Sep 06, 2005 - 05:43 AM

  Hey, for $5 I'm certainly game(y).

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• **unknown user**
  
  

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  Posted: Sep 06, 2005 - 06:22 AM

  what's pnESP do? I mean, I've heard about it, known of its existence, but what's it for exactly? Isn't this one of Cas Nuy's doo-hickeys?
  
  $5 is a very modest recoup.. I'd glady contribute if I can find a use for it.
  
  

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• **unknown user**
  
  

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  Posted: Sep 06, 2005 - 06:38 AM

  pnESP - the Easy Survey Package for PostNuke is designed to allow non
  technical users to create surveys, deploy surveys, view results in real time,
  download survey results in csv format for further analysis and much much more.
  Surveys include yes/no answers, checkbox, redial box, stats etc...
  
  http://postnuke.pbxi…p/pndocs/README.txt

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• MACscr
  
  

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  Posted: Sep 06, 2005 - 06:43 AM

  you can charge for it, but i can also buy it and redistribute it for free. Thats one of the great/bad things about GPL.

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• **unknown user**
  
  

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  Posted: Sep 06, 2005 - 07:00 AM

  Yep, I guess that is why its such a catch 22.
  
  You have someone pay to fix a module and try to recoup thier investment, someone get the module, then distributes it for free....the person that pays never recoups, then I think it would be unlikly that I or any other person would make the same mistake twice they just wouldn't release it again.
  
  One would hope that the community would understand and respect that, hoping it would catch on and be more popular for the advancement of postnuke modules and our systems, rather then allowing one webmaster (please, I am not insinuating you) would spoil it for all.
  
  But that is how the software license is set up so its more of out of etiquette then anything else.
  
  I guess the other way of dealing with that is to sell if for how much you put into it. So if I paid 150$ to update the module, I would sell it for 150$+ whatever I thought I could get. That way, if only one person bought it and redistributed it, you got your investment back...right?
  
  Just thought of a thirdway...may not be the best way but it may work:
  
  If you decide how much you want to get back for developing a module say 100$, Then you set up a place where you can basically pay to get in line to get the module. So it wouldn't be released until 20 people have paid, then when it gets released those 20 people get the module...etc... the only con with that is waiting for 20 people to pay..but you have to wait for module to be built anyways and for $5 to wait, I wouldn't mind paying as long as there was a cut off date. 1 month 6 weeks etc...
  That may work too.

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• MACscr
  
  

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  Posted: Sep 06, 2005 - 07:11 AM

  Eh, thats highly unlikely though that someone will buy it for that price though, unless they needed it as much as you. You paid for it because you needed it. Giving it out to the community is just sharing it. Having them pay for part of it isnt really sharing. I have a couple modules that i paid $500+ to get developed that im still going to release to the community for free. One idea is to have a donate area on your site. You might not get much from it, but you might get at least something. Another idea for getting money for a module that is made is to actually pool the money together before its made and have the programmer build it for the group instead of the individual. That way its a little less of a financial burden on just one person. Now all the cheapo people that really wanted it, but didnt pay for it, are still going to get it, but thats life isnt it? I know what your saying though, i feel the same way mostly. But i would also rather still share it and just hope for the best.

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• MACscr
  
  

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  Posted: Sep 06, 2005 - 07:13 AM

  BTW, I would be willing to pay $25 for this if its pnRenderd =P

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• **unknown user**
  
  

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  Posted: Sep 06, 2005 - 07:30 AM

  I edited my orginal post, as thoughts, came to me and then just now read yours. :) I see we had similiar thoughts.
  
  I have to disagree, Sharing takes many forms. Not releasing the module period (Paid or not) is ultimately not sharing. Just because you have to pay for it doesn't negate that it is sharing. I believe it is all in how you look at it. I am thankful for Tufat's chat script. The way I look at it he shares it with us for $5. I know it probably took him a lot longer to code, create, format and integrate it with postnuke and his time is worth more then 5$. I feel that is sharing it with the community.

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• **unknown user**
  
  

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  Posted: Sep 06, 2005 - 07:34 AM

  Just to clarify the spirit of GPL:
  
  - You had the module fixed because the fix matched your needs;
  
  - If you had to pay for a non-gpl module made from scratch the cost for you would have been much higher;
  
  - You are not obliged to give back the revised module;
  
  - If you want to recover all or part of the money you can make some sort of Reservation List: people interested in the module can promise some money and, if you get enough, you will make public the revision;
  
  - If not, you can keep it for yourself alone.
  
  But remember that nobody is asking you money to download and use PN760; Andreas Stratmann did not asked to you money to download it's version; and even the development team of phpESP (the starting point of pnESP - jimmerman is working on it from 2001) don't pretend your money to download their package.
  
  Anyway, is up to you!

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• **unknown user**
  
  

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  Posted: Sep 06, 2005 - 07:55 AM

  eolica

  Just to clarify the spirit of GPL:
  
  - You had the module fixed because the fix matched your needs;
  
  - If you had to pay for a non-gpl module made from scratch the cost for you would have been much higher;
  
  - You are not obliged to give back the revised module;
  
  - If you want to recover all or part of the money you can make some sort of Reservation List: people interested in the module can promise some money and, if you get enough, you will make public the revision;
  
  - If not, you can keep it for yourself alone.
  
  But remember that nobody is asking you money to download and use PN760; Andreas Stratmann did not asked to you money to download it's version; and even the development team of phpESP (the starting point of pnESP - jimmerman is working on it from 2001) don't pretend your money to download their package.
  
  Anyway, is up to you!

  
  
  So, If I am to understand you correctly, are you saying if I have a module either I built or that I paid for, that if I decide to release it, in the spirit of GPL I should release for free or not release it at all?
  
  Is that a correct statement?
  
  Thanks.

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• MACscr
  
  

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  Posted: Sep 06, 2005 - 08:05 AM

  No, I didnt mean it like that at all. Nothing wrong with charging for the module. I was just telling you what to expect and different ways for you to get some money back on it. Im not even against releasing modules that arent GPL. But of course those have to be completely built from scratch and not be just an existing module modified. This includes using the Example module as your template for the new one.
  
  Sharing and Selling are two completely different things in my opinion.

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• **unknown user**
  
  

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  Posted: Sep 06, 2005 - 11:15 AM

  rixride

  
  So, If I am to understand you correctly, are you saying if I have a module either I built or that I paid for, that if I decide to release it, in the spirit of GPL I should release for free or not release it at all?
  
  Is that a correct statement?
  
  Thanks.

  
  
  Sorry, i was wrong. phpESP and pnESP have a BSD type license. So, from a legal standpoint, you are not binded by GPL.
  
  The only recommendation of the phpESP author is:
  

  Quote

  
  If you have made any significant enhancements or changes to phpESP
  please contribute back.

  
  
  Stay well

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• MACscr
  
  

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  Posted: Sep 07, 2005 - 09:08 AM

  So has it been pnRendered?

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• **unknown user**
  
  

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  Posted: Sep 07, 2005 - 09:29 AM

  I don't believe so but it is working on 760:
  
  http://postnuke.pbxi…esp&func=view&sid=1

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