Dizkus

Hey Guys!

Anyone have any idea where a person who is not familiar with PostNuke and all of its appearantly wonderful functions might find a document which explains how to actually put some of it to practical use? Seems all of the "online documentation" targets the PHPNuke folks who switched. I am quite certain that this documentation offers little education for them and merely serves as a sort of "dictionary" for those of us who have yet to grasp the basics of block use and do not know the difference between the functionional differences between a "news block" and an "FAQ block", let alone how to do what with which.

I actually looked for documentation on the PostNuke site and it seems as though I just got ahold of the repository for the on-line documentation (see above) <smyle>...

If the goal of the appearantly limited documentation is to steer frustrated PostNuke users to these Forums to find answers then it does not appear to be the most practical use of the Forums. Most of the questions I have read (and I have read ALOT) never really got a working solution and in fact many were "worked out" by the questioner.

Really guys, if this system is only intended for the "old boys" then someone please recommend one for the masses....

Somebody HELP, PLEASE.......

PS: A link to relevant documentation would be most appreciated.

Thank you!</smyle>

Firstly, the most extensive documentation is the Official pnGuide.

How PN works: Think of PostNuke as the "framework". In this framework, one can install modules to add functionality to that framework. The default installation of PostNuke comes with the most common modules pre-installed for you, so that "right out of the box" you can have a fully working website, complete with many of the functions (features) that you see on a typical website. These pre-installed modules include News, FAQ's, Downloads, Permissions, Search, WebLinks, and many more. Of course, there are many developers who produce modules to add even more functionality than what is offered in the core installation. Some of these modules are free, some are not. Modules, for the most part, only need be uploaded and then installed via a simple point/click interface.

So...after you get all the modules you want to use on your site and have them installed, great! But...some modules come with another snazzy feature: blocks!

Blocks have various functions, but for the most part, they allow you to put a small part of the associated module into a small block for display in various places on your site. For instance, I wrote a donation module that allows admins to set up multiple donation plans that interface with PayPal. That's all fine and good, but I've also included a block with the module that allows admins to place individual donations in blocks located anywhere on their site. So as you can see a block is basically an extension of a module...allowing you to display a small portion of the information that the module itself provides.

So to recap: PostNuke is the framework, modules add functionality to the framework, and blocks allow you to place small instances of modules throughout your site.

That about as good as I can explain it...hopefully it helps...

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Photography | PHP | Other

HAHAHAHAHAHAA!!! YUP!!! Thats about the extent of the documentation!

Now how about some MEAT!

An explaination (with examples) of how to select, link to and otherwise use these Modules and Blocks. Start with those in the distro! If I take the time to create, add, modify, change, test, and otherwise "play with" the different Modules, Security, Add Story, Submit News, etc functions and options I will eventually figure out just how to make this "wonderfully complex monster" do what I want it to do.

I was merely looking for a document to shortcut that process.

Since my original message I have found one document which expands slightly on what you posted. Still there is no document that I have found which contains a "Modules" or "Block" section which even contains a reference to exactly how (technically) the "Directory" column in the modules section relates to a Block (though I have a sneaking suspicion that it does).

Is this really so difficult?

LOTS of developers, and NO documenters!

Sounds like Microsoft!! <lol>

Michael

BTW: Thank you very much for your attempt...</lol>

After your snide comments in another post...even after I took the time to respond to you here...I'm really turned off by you and will not be offering you any further assistance. If you're not going to post something constructive, you're not adding anything of value to the community. Save your sarcasm, no one wants or needs it.

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Photography | PHP | Other

Do a search on Amazon.com, a book has been written about PostNuke and is an excellent resource for people like you who want indepth detailed documentation.

I'm sure Simon appreciates your disparaging remarks about his work. It's not easy, if you think it is, I look forward to your contributions to the community, with no compensation.


99.9% of that is covered in these forums, and if you can't find it, you can ask for direction, one issue at a time, we try to help, but we don't get paid for this, so sometimes time is not available to help.

Just like the rest of us have had to do, and now try to help out people learning here, but what you're telling us here and in your other thread is that you are unwilling to take the time to learn.

The pnGuide and Ira Richard Smith's articles, both of which are linked in the doc library are exactly that, short cuts to get STARTED. There is absolutly no way to make fully comprehensive docs on PostNuke at this time as the project is in an alpha stage, so things are changing. Docs that were written for .726 are partially irrelevant in .750, and will be more so by the time we get to .8 and beyond. What you see is what you get, and if you can't deal with what's available, then you need to put your money where your mouth is, commision someone to write the documentation you want, compensate those who have tried, so they are encouraged to improve what exists, rather than belittle their efforts making them wonder what the use is. The info you want is available, you just have to be willing to do some work to find it.


Yet you expect us, for free, to provide what you seem to think Microsoft DOESN'T for a fee.

Please re-read my ~original~ post.

Because you were not able to offer a link to sustentative documentation beyond basic installation (as I requested) and in fact spent better than 50% of your response defending your right to charge for assistance here in this "user community forum" I will assume that you know of no such documentation. Seems alot of folks "give away" code but wish to charge for individual assistance. Not the proper use of the forums from where I (read newb) sit.

I am certain that you are quite capable of answering most questions that a "person like me" might ask. You have just learned that there are enough of "us" out there that you might be able to get a free lunch out of it.

Please understand that it is not my desire to lock horns with those of you who know better than I. If I have offended anyone then I sincerely apologise. I simply want to request assistance and express my frustration at the appearant lack of it in what is supposed to be an assistance forum.

I will go look for the book you suggested... Seems this may well be the only way to get the information I seek.

Can we please get back to the question of documentation?

Michael

Simon Birtwistle (HammerHead) has written the most extensive free documentation there is. Other than that there is a commercial book available from Amazon.com.

Again, Official pnGuide

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Photography | PHP | Other

I did read your original post. The two best documentation projects available at this time are the pnGuide from HammerHead and the articles that Ira Richard Smith wrote, both of which are in the library. Those two resources should cover a good bit of info needed to learn the system. Ira even goes in to some of the included modules and how they work.

Your view of sustentative documentation and mine must differ, Ira's work is exceptional, and should give most people plenty of foundation to start on by itself. Coupled with Simon's work on the pnGuide, you SHOULD be able to make good progress in your needs as listed in that other post.


Actually, I don't charge for assistance in the community forum, I charge for consultation on full site implementation, which is what you were asking for in that post.


I know of such documentation, but I know of no documentation that will do everything for you.


From where I (read Moderator and PN SUpport lead) sit, asking us to give you a full roadmap to implement your site for free is not proper use of the forums either. You asked here for documentation, I pointed you to the two best documents that exist at this time. If those aren't good enough for you, I and John both have pointed you to Kevin J. Hatch's excellent book that goes even further and may be of great benfit to you.


I probably can, but I want you to do some of the work too, don't just ask me what to do, find some solutions on your own. Alot of what you ask about in that other thread *IS* covered in Simon or Ira's writing, but you don't want to bother yourself with discovering what there is for you. You will be far better served if you take the time and play with the system, see what is in it, and figure some of the stuff out than if you just let others do all the work for you.

Free Lunch? You're the one wanting free help on a free CMS for your site. Each PN site I set up and configure takes about 15-20 hrs total, between installs, tweaks, and consultation with the client on what they need and what needs to be done to get their site active. Even though my typical hourly rate is usually $60/hr I end up billing at about $25/hr as it is. Don't ask me for free help on a free project and accuse me of looking for a "free lunch".

Not necessarily. You simply missed that I asked for documentation beyond that of initial install. I have looked at both of these documents and, though they are good framework references do not offer much beyond the basics.

Why am I wasting my time with this? You only want to argue, pat your buddies on the back, and make a buck if you can. None of which themselves is particularly repugnant but in the context in which we find ourselves they only serve to put me off.

My original post was for ASSISTANCE in determining the best way to approach a project where PostNuke is concerned, eg; create a, link to b, secure with x. Read the response by "bri" to my other post. HE got it, why can't you? Moderator, Developer, Long-time user-first time caller?

I THOUGHT that requests for assistance (I do not believe that you get to dictate what assistance means here) is what the forums are for. Based upon two of the three respondents I can only guess that some here are not as willing as others to empart their knowledge "free"ly in areas where the documentation lacks. I really do not understand this as you claim to want to help and yet provide lots and lots of reasons as to just why you should charge me to do so. <huh> Perhaps it is because I asked for specifics not included in any documentation? I think that I see a trend here... You tell me where you choose to draw the line... I do not care about that! If you do not want to help then just don't respond, and I promise not to rattle your cage.

What I end up with here is a couple of self-serving drones who like to see themselves in print. If I now sound sarcastic then it is because I AM! Please just let me fish for the assistance I seek and stop criticizing my requests. I already apologised for my terse, uncaring responses, TWICE! And in your case I only got back a terse, uncaring response...

OBTW: I promise to keep my future responses civil or not-at-all... (I am particularly impressed with the way that you reminded me that you are a moderator! <bow> Perhaps you should include it in your signature. Hey, you did!)

Thank you for your time and efforts (really)

Michael</bow></huh>

The first sentence seems more an unwitting admission on your part...and if you insist on being sarcastic, take your antics and your requests elsewhere. There are many CMS solutions out there...please, feel free to use them.

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Photography | PHP | Other

Do they have documentation? <smyle>

Actually I rather like PostNuke. Like Linux, its the support you pay for. <lol>

BTW: I thought that you and I agreed to bow out gracefully?

Hmmmm..... <grynn></grynn></lol></smyle>

As I've repeatedly stated, those two links are the best freely available information out there beyond these forums. Kevin Hatch's book is probably more what you need, but then again, that's just an oportunistic individual trying to make money off of PostNuke, just like you accused me and AlarConcepts of being.


This is in no way whatsoever about making a buck. It's clear you're not willing to pay for help, and even if you submitted a bid request to me at this point, I would turn down the job, partially because of the attitude you've taken with myself and AlarConcepts, and partially because I already have a couple of jobs in progress for individuals.

You could have fooled me, you call AlarConcepts "Opertunistic" for suggesting you post it as a paid job offer, you accuse me of wanting a "free lunch" and now accuse me of trying to make a buck. Sounds to me like the idea of anyone making money in providing any kind of PostNuke Services is repugnant to you. I suppose you feel the same about Doctors, laywers and mechanics charging for their labor.


That is the purpose of these forums, and your initial post asking for help is totally in bounds, what is out of bounds, and what this is about, is the way you responded to the suggestion of posting it as a paid job.



Your attitude and response to AlarConcepts is the sole issue here. It has nothing to do with making money at all, other than the fact that it's abundantly clear, despite your protests to the contrary, that you find it repulsive that someone would make money off of services rendered, at least where PostNuke is concerned.


Actually, as stated above, I wouldn't take your money at this point, even if you offered me double what I'd charge to do a job. It's not about money, it's about respect, and you disrespected myself, AlarConcepts and the others who give their time freely in these forums and also are paid to do work related to PostNuke.

I suspect I could find the areas of the pnGuide or Ira's writings that would help you with getting started, so it's not about that at all.



If that were the case, i'd have spent time on the thankless job of writing documentation that could be belittled because people didn't like it.



Yet, at least in my case, your appologies ring hollow because you continue to accuse me of trying to make money off of you, and belittle the fact that I provide services for a fee.

I am ordering the book.

Thank you for your assistance...

Michael

I would like to apologize to the community in general, for the way I've handled my responses in this thread. It's not my "style" and I much prefer the friendly approach.

Good luck with the book, Michael...I don't own a copy, but have heard only good things about it so far.

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Photography | PHP | Other

I got a complimentary copy of the book (Thanks Sams) and it's below my point, but sounds like it should go where he wants to go.