Zikula Community

• GlueBeard
  
  

  • Rank: Softmore
  • Registered: Dec 16, 2003
  • Last visit: Jan 19, 2010
  • Posts: 100

  Posted: Sep 09, 2004 - 02:58 AM

  I write from the perspective of one who is NOT a developer of any commercial releases for PostNuke. There is no potential for financial gain by myself which drives my thoughts on this subject. I am simply a web master, one fairly new to both web mastering and to PostNuke, and who, on occasion, visits the PostNuke.com site.
  
  In the months that I have been using PostNuke, as I have browsed forums on various websites, I have been left with the impression that, all-too-often, PostNuke, as a whole, has suffered significantly from an excess of personality conflicts, diplomatic gaffes, and misguided decisions.
  
  Whether this is true or not, this is the impression that has been left in my mind. I do, however, take what I read with a grain of salt. Some of the criticisms of both PostNuke and/or the PostNuke community I find to be credible, and some I find to be utterly lacking in credibility.
  
  That said, I would like to state my own views, as they relate to the specific issue of commercial releases, and information pertaining thereto.
  
  First, no individual, group, nor company that produces commercial releases for PostNuke can compel either myself or anyone else to buy their products.
  
  Second, there have been quite a number of times that I have logged on to the PostNuke.com website to see what the latest news in the world of PostNuke was, only to discover that, apparently, there was no new news in the entire world of PostNuke. That strikes me as very odd, very ironic, and very untrue.
  
  Learning what the latest word is about PostNuke must, of necessity, include what the latest word is in the realm of commercial products for PostNuke. An awful lot of what I see that appears in newspapers or on television would probably not appear, if a stringent view of what actually constitutes "news" were applied to those mediums of information exchange and conveyance.
  
  I realize that some people simply won't have an interest in the commercial releases associated with PostNuke. But, what about those of us who do? Are our own interest in such products and developments to be subordinated to the realm of less importance? If so, then such an approach simply divides the PostNuke community even further that it is already divided. At least, I think so.
  
  The perspective from which one views things varies from individual to individual. From a commercial release's developer's perspective, anything new about their product or products may constitutes "news." To others, the same thing might, instead, constitute "advertisements" or hype.
  
  I am left wondering if PostNuke.com is here for the entire PostNuke community, or only for a part of it?
  
  There is more than just a casual sense of irony in the fact that PostNuke is supposedly a content management system, and yet, here we find the PostNuke community, or at least the powers-that-be at PostNuke.com, embroiled in a quintessential question of how to handle the managing of certain content.
  
  Nothing compels PostNuke.com to be limited to an "either/or" approach.
  
  I would submit that neither the PostNuke community at large, nor the future of PostNuke as an ongoing project, will benefit from the unnecessary alienation of the developers of commercial releases.
  
  I say "unnecessary" because, quite frankly, some of the things that I have seen both PostNuke.com staff and commercial developers argue over wouldn't fill a thimble, when you cut right through all of the smoke and mirrors of the arguments.
  
  I personally feel that the commercial developers should be able to "hawk" and "plug" their products on PostNuke.com. I am quite capable of sorting through their self-inflicted praise to try and inform myself about whether their product has value, to me, or not.
  
  Are the commercial developers for PostNuke not part of the PostNuke community? Are they suddenly aliens in our midst? OK, they are out to make a buck, but so what?
  
  There are many things about the PostNuke.com that are far more deserving of the powers-that-be attention than the issue of whether to allow commercial developers to announce various things about and associated with their commercial products, compared to those who do largely the same thing relating to noncommercial products.
  
  There is nothing that requires PostNuke.com to having only a single news section. If the PostNuke community has to go elsewhere to learn about the latest and greatest changes to PostNuke products, then the PostNuke sense of community is not enhanced by such, for it amounts to nothing more grand than the further splintering of the community. Is it the great object and desire of the PostNuke.com powers-that-be that I and other PostNuke.com users must now visit site after site after site, in a futile and never-ending bid to stay on top of what is really happening in the realm of PostNuke? Do you realize how utterly time consuming and inefficient that is, especially for those of us who are still on dial-up access to the Internet?
  
  Rather than unnecessarily act in a divisive way, one which stands to further alienate some of the more promising potential in the PostNuke development community, and effectively drive them to seek alternatives, I believe that, instead, the PostNuke community at-large would be far better served by an embracing of its commercial developers, and an earnest facilitation of their own desires to try and keep both users and potential users of their PostNuke related products informed in a timely and thorough manner.
  
  If I, as an individual web master, never learn about a given product or development associated with that product, then it is more than just a question of the product developer not making any money off of me. As a web master, my perspective is different from the commercial developers. I always retain a vested and considerable interest in both learning about and staying abreast of things that might prove useful to me.
  
  But, that's just it. Every web master might not need or want the same thing. For that very reason, all the more important, I feel, for the commercial developers to be facilitated in trying to get their word out. After all, there are so very many of us that are a part of the PostNuke web master community.
  
  Is PostNuke about US versus Them? Or is it about all of us, the commercial developers included?
  
  If the issue is one of numbers, that as the number of PostNuke developers grows, it becomes, by default, more difficult to sort through and weed out the good from the bad, would the situation be improved if the PostNuke commercial developers went away, altogether?
  
  Why go out of the way to make it hard on them to hawk, and plug, and pander their wares? A Gestapo-type approach to a flea market problem is overkill.
  
  The entire issue is far less about how to deal with the commercial developers hawking of their products than with what is being done to actively facilitate their efforts to promote their products?
  
  In the end, be it the bitter end or the sweet end, it all boils down to content management. Is the core nexus of content management, as an abstract concept, about control of information or about facilitation of information?
  
  Maybe, when all is said and done, the powers-that-be at PostNuke.com will come up with the perfect solution. Maybe that perfect solution will be to simply tell the PostNuke community that if they want to know something about a particular thing, then they should use the search function more.
  
  I wish that I had a dollar for every time I have read a "use the search function" response as I have scoured these forums here on PostNuke.com.
  
  Commercial developers obviously want to reach the PostNuke community. That is axiomatic to the nature of being a commercial developer for any given community or cross-segment of population.
  
  The one constant in life is change. We are ultimately destined to become either agents of change, or victims of change. There really is no alternative.
  
  There could be a commercial news section and a noncommercial news section, or some variant, thereof. However it is ultimately done, I think that the commercial developers of PostNuke products should be facilitated in getting their word out to those of the PostNuke community who might have an interest in their products and associated developments.
  
  If the focus is on inhibiting, rather than on facilitating, then I think that it is a recipe for failure from the start.
  
  My two cents worth on the subject.

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• HalbrookTech
  
  

  • Rank: Developer
  • Registered: Dec 31, 1969
  • Last visit: Jun 01, 2010
  • Posts: 6859

  Posted: Sep 09, 2004 - 05:47 AM

  Umm, the "ban" on comercial postings on the news sites has been overturned for a few weeks now. Some peopel who made the final decision failed to make an announcement to that fact, but it has been confirmed in a response to one of the threads around here tho..
  
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• GlueBeard
  
  

  • Rank: Softmore
  • Registered: Dec 16, 2003
  • Last visit: Jan 19, 2010
  • Posts: 100

  Posted: Sep 14, 2004 - 06:35 PM

  That's fine, mhalbrook. I came across the thread while browsing at random, and decided to post an opinion regarding the matter. Thanks for the update, though.

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• Lobos
  
  

  • Rank: Expert
  • Registered: Dec 02, 2002
  • Last visit: Apr 30, 2010
  • Posts: 1474

  Posted: Sep 16, 2004 - 08:02 AM

  GlueBeard,
  
  I wish you had of posted this a few months back.
  
  Thanks anyway, it is always interesting to hear someones views; epecially more so when they are backed up by facts, LOGIC and reason.
  
  Others around here would do well to learn from this...
  
  Regards
  Lobos
  
  --
  -Lobos
  Professional PHP Framework Services: Concept, Development and Deployment

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• **unknown user**
  
  

  • Rank: Helper
  • Registered: Mar 16, 2002
  • Last visit: Oct 21, 2009
  • Posts: 825

  Posted: Sep 20, 2004 - 01:27 PM

  If someone wants to sell a piece of code, then so be it... Thats their right.
  
  Commercial Development will bring money to the non-commercial market of post-nuke. See it this way... if the commercial application cannot do something because the postnuke API's dont support the necassary features... The commercial developers would work with postNuke to get it done.
  
  Look at it this way... If you want a feature or theme that only your site has, then commercial is an excellent way to go. Themes get used ALL the time... Over and over again... So much that I have seen some themes on 6 sites... Without even knowing about postnuke. In my company, crayhillsolutions.com many of my customers dont want to pay me the thousand so odd-dollars for a custom theme. Therefor I often show them some commercially available theme... making it harder for them to be "found" out.
  
  Applications are the same way. If I want to make my inventory system postNuke compatable, then so be it. Dont whine about it but encurage it. More people using postNuke is a good thing, not a bad thing.

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• **unknown user**
  
  

  • Rank: Helper
  • Registered: Mar 16, 2002
  • Last visit: Oct 21, 2009
  • Posts: 825

  Posted: Sep 20, 2004 - 01:33 PM

  Also, why is it ok for me to use PostNuke to sell my product, or present info on my market... and its not ok, for me to sell my postNuke product?
  
  Why is it ok for me to use PostNuke on my corporate site, but not ok for me to sell postNuke Commercial code?
  
  And finally
  
  Why is it ok for me to sell a PostNuke website to a client, create custom applications, get paid on a hourly basis, and not release the code to the public, and not ok for me to sell a custom app.
  
  People who complain about this, are like people who give gifts on the holidays, then 6 months later gets upset cause the person leaves it in their closet... breaks it... or sells it...

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• **unknown user**
  
  

  • Rank: Helper
  • Registered: Mar 16, 2002
  • Last visit: Oct 21, 2009
  • Posts: 825

  Posted: Sep 20, 2004 - 01:42 PM

  I created a custom template, a custom configuration of PostNuke, AND I plan on using it to make MONEY!!! Ohh, and my site is featured here on this forum, in the weblinks, and anounced a few other places. In fact, I use postNuke in many sales pitches. I even tell them its FREE software, and that I can make Custom code. I respond to peoples questions because I want to help people, and I want the free advertising my footer gives me. So I challenge you to define the fine line?
  
  Its like Free speech. Sure we can limit it, but in the end if we do problems will arise. Often times we think its "ok" to limit it... hell its easy to start defining exceptions... but in the end, it will break down and fail.
  
  Dont make stupid decissions, and stop complaining about other people making money. Hell even Linus is getting paid well for his work on Linux.

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• Lobos
  
  

  • Rank: Expert
  • Registered: Dec 02, 2002
  • Last visit: Apr 30, 2010
  • Posts: 1474

  Posted: Sep 22, 2004 - 10:03 PM

  HI there,
  
  I think you will find that commercial items are now being posted on Postnuke. But due to a lack of official announcement everyone is confused about what they are, or are not allowed to post - or in fact, it they can post at all!!.
  
  So come on pnManagement - lets make it official, give us an announcement with some guidelines and rules on commercial postings.
  
  PS: Due to problems in the past I am hesitant to post commercial items until this is cleared up - I have already wasted enough of my time...
  
  Regards
  
  --
  -Lobos
  Professional PHP Framework Services: Concept, Development and Deployment

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• **unknown user**
  
  

  • Rank: Freshman
  • Registered: Mar 16, 2002
  • Last visit: Oct 21, 2009
  • Posts: 68

  Posted: Nov 20, 2004 - 09:38 PM

  Hello Lobos, I can well understand your hesitation and obvious frustration in this matter and nodoubt others in regard to Postnuke.
  
  We ourselves have been waiting... waiting... and yes waiting for Postnuke to get organised and offer Commercial Developers the opportunity to advertise (for a fee) on postnuke.com for let's see... almost a year now and despite many promises zilch of worth has progressed on that front too.
  
  Instead they created an unknown entity called www.postnukepro.com for Commercial Developments, and I cannot even see it linked to anywhere on the postnuke.com website! This is really too little and too late and not what Commercial Developers were promised at all.
  
  Disenchanted.
  
  Barry
  
  cmsMerchant
  Postnuke e-Commerce Solution/Membership Module
  WorldPay - Authorize.net - iPayment - 2CheckOut - StormPay - PayPal - iBill, with more payment plugins coming soon!
  http://www.cmsmerchant.com
  
  

  Lobos

  HI there,
  
  I think you will find that commercial items are now being posted on Postnuke. But due to a lack of official announcement everyone is confused about what they are, or are not allowed to post - or in fact, it they can post at all!!.
  
  So come on pnManagement - lets make it official, give us an announcement with some guidelines and rules on commercial postings.
  
  PS: Due to problems in the past I am hesitant to post commercial items until this is cleared up - I have already wasted enough of my time...
  
  Regards

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